So I got some comments regarding the last blog which is cool, I like a lively discussion. I am not questioning that there are very good people out there; that much is evident, my question is why they are so. What do they 'get' out of it? I realize to a degree I'm playing the devil's advocate, but so be it, I want an answer. So going along the line what I am trying to ask for is why would these intelligent people without any religious or idealism gain a moral compass, this is mostly referring to how we act in and why we form societies. I am a big proponent of the economic system, assuming we get Mr Peabody and take the Way Back Machine to the dawn of man, say you had three people, One was strong, one was a good hunter/provider, another a good cook (or some other skill) Why would they join together? Any one of the three could find some way to kill off the other two, and to the victor go the spoils.... and yet they might band together, I think its simple economics: the skills they have as a whole would make life easier for the three. And then you have the Lord of the Flies. Who becomes the leader, and why? Again to me, its economic, the leader gets 'the most toys.' And lets face it who wouldn't want that? Its a giant game theory example, the push for a power grab is outweighed by being a content member of the society.
The answer that I'm looking for why people help others is 'it makes them feel good about themselves.' That answer to me just leads to more questions... its not really a logical answer- unless the answer is illogical. Then well... I'm still not sure.
Trip Dates Decided
13 years ago
8 comments:
So, let's envision these three people of yours - the hunter, the farmer, and the thinker... They meet each other randomly, and there are no other people within they're range, as they've all wandered to this point from some far-away land... Do they stick together because of "economic" reasons, in order to pool their skills and resources, or do they join for "social" reasons, because they desire company of their fellow man? Personally, I think it's an equal mix of the two, and not one or the other outright. We need our fellow man for comfort, as being alone on a cold night in the woods just isn't very fun, is it? It's a lot less scary when you've got someone to share the fear with. But we also very much have a "pack" mentality built into us, as we can be more effective and efficient when working in groups, and I believe our race discovered that fact very early on. We are not physically gifted enough to make it alone in the world, as we would be eaten by a lion or tiger or bear in about a week... Thus, we co-inhabit for mutual defense and mutual partnership - both a social and an economic purpose. I don't think it makes any sense to try and put all your eggs in one basket, and try to make an argument for one case or the other, as it just can't be that simple - we're too complicated a race for that.
Regarding your later statement, I think that the reason that we help others is because we have a distant hope that the help will be returned. Either individually through a direct future response by the individual that was helped, or by the benevolence of God, or by some karmic retribution, if you believe it that sort of stuff. I think that early on we helped our peers because they helped us in return directly. Now, with such large societies, it is a little more complex, and the help doesn't always come back directly, but it's like those commercials where you help someone, and someone else sees you do that, so they then help someone else in response... and finally that circle of help returns to you down the line. Unbeknownst to you, the help you received was somehow directly linked to something you did previously... Why not? Beyond that, I think helping others, as Tanya put it, is "instinctual". It's just bred into us from birth, when our families care for us, raise us, teach us, provide for us, because we would die otherwise. Thus, it's a survival instinct from birth to rely on others, and it carries through to adulthood, where we then help others around us that need similar assistance and connection. It's not so much a conscious thing, but a deeper down part of humanity. From the moment of birth, we know that we need to rely on those around us for survival and we ask for that help through the cries of early childhood, in order to have the nurturing necessary to survive. Thus, throughout our life, we return that gift to others... the cycle of life.
*Note: Tanya assisted greatly in the formation of these thoughts.*
Basically, my feeling is that it's not so much about morals and values and some sort of belief system, but a much more primal instinct to help, assist, and care for your fellow human-being because otherwise we wouldn't survive...
Thus, it's the me-first attitude that too many people today have taken on that is truly our downfall. This primal instinct to do what's best for the group is fading, or over-run, by the individual desire for power. And our television shows and advertising campaigns and even some of our political doctrines (ehm-libertarians-ehm) don't help, as they promote the sort of me first, country first attitude that ends up hurting humanity... We are a world of one race, and it is this global society that should come first. Nations rise and fall; do we want all of humanity to fall the next time the great powers of the world choose to collide? It's not all that far from reality, given how close we've already come to Nuclear Winter. Who's to say the next time it doesn't actually happen?
Okay, I'll leave it at that...
"way back machine" is my catch phrase...
How about a concrete example: Smiley pays for things on a ski trip we all pay him back. Why? Fear of God? Fear of the law? Most likely because we respect him and value his friendship. To bring that to a broader picture we think about the others around us give respect to get respect and speak the truth to hear the truth and those that speak truth form laws to punish those that can not see beyond themselves and seek to lie.
Just look at your own relationships(Timea) do you act out of fear of punishment? or love for others? and can anyone really explain love? would you trust some one that acts out of fear any way be it fear or god or fear of you? I would not.
Richard, the concrete historical facts are much appreciated! Very good stuff!
Yes Richard you are correct, I do believe in many things I don't know how to quantify as you said love, friendship, trust, expectations, fears, and God. To me it is quite obvious (and I am comfortable with it) unknown or 'higher powers' exist; to me thats an explanation for the unexplainible. This both helps in my decision making processes to make (what I think are) the 'right' choices But then people challenge me because I believe in them.
I am then in these posts trying to twist it into a converstation and trying to use macros and 'facts' to create an equally inconclusive rebuttal as it were. So you could say that by writing I was proving nothing, but I was just trying to make it sound just as weird as the former seems to me. There is just so much amazing things out in the world and we understand much, but not nearly enough IMO.
Thanks for the comments guys!
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